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Tell me all about it, dear...
Petrouchka - 2005-04-29 23:25:26
LA, check out "Catch-22" as soon as you're willing to. ;-) I see its influence in both Douglas Adams' writing and M*A*S*H. Catch-22 has very jarring emotional shifts, though, constantly jerking the reader back and forth between lunacy and tragedy. In one paragraph you'll be in hysterics from laughing so much, in the next paragraph one of the characters will be killed... TO SDG (et al.): What makes the difference between Great Stories and Great Literature? Simple: ALL Great Literature are Great Stories, but not all Great Stories are Great Literature. Great Literature occurs when a story transcends the superficial meaning of the plot and provokes multiple meanings or interpretations. Great Literature is when the images and points of the story stand for so much more than just what they are presented as. And just because a story is well known and taught in High School doesn't make it Great Literature. "The Good Earth" by Pearl S. Buck is Great Literature; "The Great Gatsby" by F. Scott Fitzgerald is not. Perhaps if I were an English teacher I could detail it more than that, but for now, let me just give you examples... Elmore Leonard, John Irving and Stephen King write Great Stories, but not Great Literature (with the possible exception of King's "The Stand," a book that was vastly underappreciated in critical circles, IMO). Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Albert Camus and John Steinbeck wrote Great Literature. Marquez's writing style is definitely for the "Advanced" reader only. He writes entirely in run-ons: hundreds and hundreds of pages of train-of-thought run-on sentences, but yet they never lose focus of where they're going or the story they're trying to tell. In "One Hundred Years of Solitude" he also throws the concept of time out the window, and the story (at points) takes place seemingly in the past, present and future all simultaneously. It took me weeks to get through that book, but even though I could only read 20-30 pages in a sitting before my brain got tired, I would consider the book to be "riveting", and the story (and the images from the story) remain vivid in my mind over a year later. Needless to say, that sort of impact doesn't come from Anne Rice, Ayn Rand, John Grisham or Michael Crichton. It's the sole domain of the Marquezes, Steinbecks and Ellisons of the world. ... Enough for now. I've practically written an entry about books in LA's comments.
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Holden Fan (aka Pandi Mallet-head) - 2005-04-30 00:52:12
Heh. Stirring the pot, are ye? Cool. So when can we smoke some? (Kidding! I think.) Seriously, though, I'm glad no offense was taken at my snark. I love the Mets, too, although tomorrow night I shall just enjoy the game. Anyway, I've never read any of Anne Rice's non-Anne-Rice stuff. But I've been disappointed by most of her more recent books. Blood and Gold (the story of Marius, keeper of Those Who Must Be Kept) was okay, but in Blood Canticle she turns Lestat into a gangsta shiznit ghetto punk and I HATE it. I do think it's easier to be a vampire than to be in love. (This is exactly why my own vampire falls in love so much, though. I admire her in her polyamory.) I can't get through LotR because I can only stand so many descriptions of rolling meadows. I don't see it as a Jesus story, though. Frodo may have been tempted, but he wasn't exactly martyred. There were a lot of environmental and sociopolitical overtones to the story though. I don't like Stephen King because the man apparently can't write in complete sentences. I don't think Gatsby was all that great--I like Fitzgerald's short story about a mosquito that annoys him when he has insomnia best. SDG: If your first-edition Catcher has a photo of Salinger, then it's genuine. As for great literature, I think "literature" itself is a pretentious term. However, if we use Petrouka's definition--when images and points of the story stand for more than what they are represented as and provokes multiple meanings and interpretations--then I'll pull out my foam copy of Catcher in the Rye and bandy it about, because I see "so much more" in Holden than most of LA's fan base, it seems. I see his confusion and inability (or obstinate refusal, depending on whether he annoys you) to adapt to a world he doesn't necessarily like. I see how the meanness of others wounds him and how he lashes out at it. I see his fierce defense of innocence in his anger about the profanity on the school wall. I see his disgust with his own gender's treatment of women in his commentary on Stradlater and the thought of Stradlater giving Jane "the time" in Ed Banky's car. He was pissed that Stradlater would never think of Jane keeping her kings in the back row. A misogynist wouldn't give a flying frig about a female's checker proclivities, much less remember the teardrop that fell on the checkerboard, much LESS even notice or care about the reasons WHY that tear had fallen, which had to do with another man's disgusting treatment of women. Besides, to this day, I still get peeved when I'm writing an article and someone starts talking about commas (as a recent entry of mine indicates). And if a man's razor is out in plain view in his bathroom, I will *still* look at it to see if he's really a secret slob. It's taken me 24 years to spell goddamn "goddamn" and not "goddam," too. Yep. The Catcher in the Rye. That's literature. Heh. :::bonk::: (Geez, I should just write an entry for all to read, but then I'd have to unlock.)
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Pandi P.S. - 2005-04-30 00:57:08
I haven't read Catch-22 either.
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Cat - 2005-04-30 01:20:46
I''m not chiming in about literature, I've never found anyone that agrees with my tastes. I have been thinking about Journal Con though. You've made the trek far more tempting.
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Melissa - 2005-04-30 01:54:41
Heh. I am curious what you think of the Dark Tower Series, overall. Me? Loved the first three. I liked the main tale that Roland tells in the fourth, but found the box narrative (especially the plotline at the end with the Emerald Palace) contrived, rushed, and a little out of sync with the rest of the books. Wolves of the Calla felt a little off, too, as if he'd lost the characters... their... camaraderie? ...and was feeling them out again. The old feeling of the characters came back in book six, but I HATE the modern convention that some authors seem to get caught up in of putting themselves into the story as a character. That pissed me off, frankly. Distracting. Not to mention extremely self-important and conceited. By book seven I was thoroughly disgusted. And that freaking ending... Gah. He ruined the concept of the dark tower being the center of all the worlds, the beams, everything, and made it a stupid little parlor trick, in which he stole cheap tricks from Rowling too. The villains sucked and his foreshadowing was EXTREMELY heavy-handed. I'm probably just still pissed about what he did to poor Jake, though. To save himself. Bah. Whatever. You can ask Morgan, I was practically screaming at Stephen King as I read it, and if the last two books hadn't cost so much, I would have thrown them across the room. I think I got a wee bit too attached to the characters and the story early on, and took it personally when he (in my opinion, of course) RUINED it. Heh. Sheesh. I should not leave ranty, bitchy comments at 2 a.m. Forgive me. I'll stop here. I *am* curious what you thought of those books. And I love that you have so many readers who are so passionate about books. :-)
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RaeAnne - 2005-04-30 03:36:14
LM's Anne books are my favorite. When I'm in a funk or I need some comforting, I turn to Anne. It's funny, though... Anne's House of Dreams used to be my favorite. Now it's Anne of the Island, or Anne of Avonlea. Wanting what I don't have, I guess.
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Ladybugge - 2005-04-30 05:38:22
I have nothing of literary merit to say. But I am thrilled to meet someone else who has (and reads) Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle. One of my all-time favourites. :-)
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purple chai - 2005-04-30 08:36:31
Did you love Cannery Row? I'm about halfway through. And I just "re-read" the same Harry Potter on audio, such fun. Catch-22 was a life-changing book for me at 16, but I'm having trouble getting through it again these days. Are you a Vonnegut fan at all? Also, I don't know that I.B. Singer you mentioned; I know I read The Slave and a lot of his children's stuff -- I have a signed copy of The Fools of Chelm -- and short stories.
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LA - 2005-04-30 09:31:19
I think Stephen King deserves his own entry, so another time for that. // I have loved 'Cannery Row' for 20 years. It's my favorite Steinbeck and a book I turn to again and again when I need to be soothed. Steinbeck loves all the people in that book and makes us love them too. // 'Short Friday' is short stories, the title story being my favorite in that book. It's about a very poor and very pious couple whose happiest day of the year is the Friday with the least amount of daylight, thus making it the longest shabbos of the year. I've read 'The Spinoza of Market Street' collection to tatters. IB Singer's short stories are jewels to me. To say so much in so little space! Genius. ~LA
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Petrouchka - 2005-04-30 17:43:18
Vonnegut's loads of fun and I enjoy reading him, but all of his stuff is the same. He's got one writing style. It's good, but I just can't read three or four of his books in a row. I need something in between them. *FLAME WAR ON* Just kidding. Pandi, I *saw* everything you saw in Holden, it just didn't impress me. Reading "Catcher in the Rye" provokes the same emotions in me as reading the blog of some goth teenager. I just want to wiggle my fingers at Holden and go "Oooo! Angst! Angst! Angst!" Sure, the book is better written, but it's a lot of the same stuff. Guess we'll just have to disagree on the book... as for Steinbeck, "Cannery Row" is great, but I think "The Moon is Down" is even better.
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